Curse

Snowman · Aug 24, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arknow

expect crap

that way anything remotely usefull will be met with full acceptance

ROFLMAO!

I totally agree actually..

When I first read about customising skills for henchies my mind went into overdrive trying to imagine the possabilities..

Then I remember Gaile saying that there will be 12vs12 ALLIANCE Battles for Faction, and how excited I got then... and I clearly remember how deceived I felt when I realised that you couldnt actually challenge other alliances, and that they were actually Faction Battles.

So this is what I expect...

You wont be able to name the henchies
You wont be able to change their armor
You wont be able to change their weapons
You wont be able to change the skills on ALL of the henchies
You wont be able to select Elite skills

You WILL only be able to change one or two of the skills, and ONLY from a pre-selected list... even then, you may only be able to chose "skill sets"

And if Im wrong about any of the above... well, It would be an absoloute Bobby dazzler

Crimso · Aug 24, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

ROFLMAO!

I totally agree actually..

When I first read about customising skills for henchies my mind went into overdrive trying to imagine the possabilities..

Then I remember Gaile saying that there will be 12vs12 ALLIANCE Battles for Faction, and how excited I got then... and I clearly remember how deceived I felt when I realised that you couldnt actually challenge other alliances, and that they were actually Faction Battles.

So this is what I expect...

You wont be able to name the henchies
You wont be able to change their armor
You wont be able to change their weapons
You wont be able to change the skills on ALL of the henchies
You wont be able to select Elite skills

You WILL only be able to change one or two of the skills, and ONLY from a pre-selected list... even then, you may only be able to chose "skill sets"

And if Im wrong about any of the above... well, It would be an absoloute Bobby dazzler

that would be funny, you have the choice for monks, res sig or ressurect,
warrior,res sig or res sig

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Or funnier still, the henchies come with pre-built skill set ups mirroring the PvP prebuilds. You can choose to make the Warrior a standard "paladin" or other useless build. Instant enchant removal anyone?

Scary thing, I can actually see Anet trying this, to once again irritate the player base into more "intros to PvP" and "close the ties". Zaishen challenge anyone?

Chris Blackstar · Aug 24, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

they say you can control your henchies, what I would like to see is that if you have say 6 PVE characters already, I wounder if you could use them instead of making new henchies, I would love to have a party made up of all my existing characters, that would be fun.

Rera · Aug 24, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I think one danger of being able to micro your henchmen is something someone pointed out very early in the thread: the flavor of the game itself begins to shift towards RTS. As it is, playing with henchmen is already quite different from playing with a real team (and I don't just mean you actually finish missions, har har). If you add in the element of being able to literally control your henchmen, the gap between these playstyles will increase significantly.

Fred Kiwi · Aug 24, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfrost

In a way, I hope that you can only choose from a certain amount of each profession, or type of henchie. This would limit w/* just bringing along 7 henchie monks and tanking everything without fear.

But then again, that would be quite fun...

why strangle innovation?

I think you're forgetting we can already do this with players

Vyral · Aug 24, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

From the ANet Press Release:

Quote:

In this third Guild Wars campaign, players must fight to hold back the night as a mad ruler attempts to free an outcast god and bring darkness to the continent of Elona. But players won't fight alone. Guild Wars Nightfall introduces new customizable Heroes who level up, follow player instructions in combat, and use skills and equipment of the player's choosing. These Heroes will follow the player through savage coasts, ancient monuments, and poisonous deserts during an epic story that spans twenty missions and hundreds of quests.

So... for the guy up thread who said this wasn't confirmed... i guess its confirmed.

As to the rest, it depends on how cynical you want to be. Current henchies do "level up" as you advance in the game as someone already said. They also already follow commands in battle, as long as its the command "I'm attacking so and so". Use skills and equipment of the players choosing... this could span an entire spectrum. You get to make their entire skillbar from anything, or you can choose from a quite limited selection. You can give them any equipment to use, or you can choose whether they use an axe/sword/hammer...

Honestly, I'm sad to say I'm not expecting much. We all saw the henchie problems that existed at the beginnings of Factions, and it took quite awhile and several updates before they actually worked like they were supposed to. And those were non-customizable... But we won't know until it comes out, or until ANet decides to be a little less vague,

Epinephrine · Aug 24, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

The issues with trying to get AI right for set skills are aparently pretty big, imagine with skill sets that aren't as easy? I don't know how they'll manage it.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 24, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Did you even read This post?Or did you skip from page 2 to 4 Vyral?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetris L

Attention to All: Costumizable Henchies are confirmed in the PC Format magazine preview, which has been exclusively granted and authorized by Anet.

You may continue now

P.S.: They are called "heroes" though, not henchmen. Slight difference.

Wow serious?Gotta get that magazine to read more on it.
Still i dont think it will be as costumizable as we are hoping,i think skillwise it will be more like what we have in factions but with a whole lots of more options.
Chocking Gas interupt henchie, inciendiary arrows interupt henchie,Savage spammer interupter, etc.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 24, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

I think one danger of being able to micro your henchmen is something someone pointed out very early in the thread: the flavor of the game itself begins to shift towards RTS. As it is, playing with henchmen is already quite different from playing with a real team (and I don't just mean you actually finish missions, har har). If you add in the element of being able to literally control your henchmen, the gap between these playstyles will increase significantly.

I dont think that's a bad thing at all. It would add a lot of variety to the game. Closing the gap between these playstyles won't help anything. If someone is deadset against playing with PUGs he will just refuse to do so....unless he cant finish a mission with henchies. That would just be forcing someone to do something he doesnt want...

And people who actually like PUGs or playing with their friends/guilds won't give up the social interaction to play strictly only with henchies. A variety of playstyles would actually encourage me to try all of them.

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

I dont think that's a bad thing at all. It would add a lot of variety to the game. Closing the gap between these playstyles won't help anything. If someone is deadset against playing with PUGs he will just refuse to do so....unless he cant finish a mission with henchies. That would just be forcing someone to do something he doesnt want...

And people who actually like PUGs or playing with their friends/guilds won't give up the social interaction to play strictly only with henchies. A variety of playstyles would actually encourage me to try all of them.

I agree with this. I will not PuG anymore. I've had too many afkers; too many fools run off to unlock a section of the map, then drop; too many grab their cap, then drop; just too many who don't understand the basic idea of not grabbing five groups of level 28s is a bad idea, then scream about dying.

For me, it's henchies, guildies, allies or logging. I have no problem explaining what I know or sharing what I am doing or how I did something to someone who asks me, but I'm not about to hold another players hand and tell them how to play the game they bought. They will figure it out and hopefully have fun doing so... however, I will not have my time wasted or to be annoyed by those others that have annoyed me by doing one of the above listed things.

These henchies, if done with some reasonable thought and flexability will keep me playing and purchasing the games in the future... as long as we don't have another Factions (but that's another thread) or PvP heavy game. I just hope, Anet allows these henchies to go with us to other chapters, sort of a perm group tied to the character that can be re-placed by real players as needed.

Horseman Of War · Aug 24, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

These henchies, if done with some reasonable thought and flexability will keep me playing and purchasing the games in the future... as long as we don't have another Factions (but that's another thread) or PvP heavy game. I just hope, Anet allows these henchies to go with us to other chapters, sort of a perm group tied to the character that can be re-placed by real players as needed.

It might be a case similar to different towns=different henchies.... I dont expect to be able to bring my Custom Hench to Tyria, for example... whether or not its my Elona Character...

Hopefully our old characters (cantha&tyria) will have access to the Custom Henchies- id assume so... but we all know about assumption, eh?

GloryFox · Aug 24, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

The issues with trying to get AI right for set skills are aparently pretty big, imagine with skill sets that aren't as easy? I don't know how they'll manage it.

I would expect this to be easier then you realize. Anet is consistently updating the tools they use to develop the game. I am sure the tool they now use for henchmen will be similar to the one the players will use. Plus if they keep henchmen to one single class of skills, as they do now, and keep skills at about 6-7 per henchman, as they do now, you won't (can't) have complex cross class builds players use. Such as Blood is Power Boon Prot Monks, or Bunny Thumpers complicated build structures would not be available because of a lack of secondary skill selections. This makes AI management easy in my mind. Then it’s a matter of priority levels on skills.

Either way I’m not worried about it.

spellfall · Aug 24, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

My only question is that with these customizable henchmen and the fact that they level up with you. If you choose to level up the ranger, monk, and mesmer from the begining(assuming the game won't go to 8 man teams automatically) then you would have little option to change to a warrior. If you have 3 level 20 henchmen and 5 level 1 henchmen, as soon as you hit 8 man team territory you're screwed.

Sad and pathetic but the only way to describe this is...dare I say it, Pokemon. Yes that sad card game we all abandoned when we were twelve, but say you have a level 20 Pikachu, and...i think it was six to a party, 5 level 1 (insert pokemon names here). When the Pikachu dies or is not effective against something, you lose.

Also this will change the game from an "MMORPG" to a "Solo w/ NPC". Not saying the game is an MMORPG but if it was, it won't be because people will rely on "teh uber 1337 henchies!!1!shiftone!!"

Here's to hoping ANET gives this feature a second, or third look. Side note...can anyone say Carebear Factory?

~Neon

Arturo02 · Aug 24, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I just want to be able to stop the henchie ele from using fire storm. I swear sometimes it makes me want to drag Orion into aggro and watch him die hehe.

Saider maul · Aug 25, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I think for experience players it wont be to bad. it will however stop high speed exceleration thru the game sense you have to level your henchies.

I see this as 12 men trying to stand in a 3 man circle jerk. ( Cluster &%$* )

WasAGuest · Aug 25, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellfall

My only question is that with these customizable henchmen and the fact that they level up with you. If you choose to level up the ranger, monk, and mesmer from the begining(assuming the game won't go to 8 man teams automatically) then you would have little option to change to a warrior. If you have 3 level 20 henchmen and 5 level 1 henchmen, as soon as you hit 8 man team territory you're screwed.

Sad and pathetic but the only way to describe this is...dare I say it, Pokemon. Yes that sad card game we all abandoned when we were twelve, but say you have a level 20 Pikachu, and...i think it was six to a party, 5 level 1 (insert pokemon names here). When the Pikachu dies or is not effective against something, you lose.

Also this will change the game from an "MMORPG" to a "Solo w/ NPC". Not saying the game is an MMORPG but if it was, it won't be because people will rely on "teh uber 1337 henchies!!1!shiftone!!"

Here's to hoping ANET gives this feature a second, or third look. Side note...can anyone say Carebear Factory?

~Neon

You lost me at Pokemon... seriously. Another analogy might work for us old timers.

I did get the MMORPG to Solo w/ NPC though. Anet is looking long term with the improved AI. If Anet didn't do something about the AI, the game very well might die. Why? Population thinning out, not people leaving, but spreading out over more chapters. GW doesn't have the 6 million players so getting a group together will become harder and harder as the chapters come out. Since all chapters are not required, players that are not in on the latest one may find themselves standing around Solo w/ NPC. If the AI were to be left as it is, those players trying to get through, say Eternal grove with a masters might get a bit of a headache, or a non-interupter trying to take on Seabed with henchies. Doable, but difficult if not impossible for some players.
Now, if Anet begins to follow what sells, and begins to make all chapters really good in the PvE dept, we might begin to see an influx of players from games like WoW and EQ2 wanting to come join us and henchies wont be as needed, but could still be around for people like me that refuse PuGs. That way, we wont waste an hour at a time "lfg" or "glf X" every time we want to adventure.

Carebear factory?

Xenrath · Aug 25, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Seems you get henchiehero(es) who will "follow you through campaign and gain levels/xp" so that's like your own personal permanent team of henchies?

If it is, I can foresee hassles as people argue in parties about bringing their own personal hero. e.g. a party of 6 (out of 8) decides to fill the last 2 with Herohench. Whose herohench gets chosen?

AI/control/customising is welcome but I hope this doesn't lead to even more hench teams - it's supposed to be a massive multiplayer game, not a massive henchieplayer game. Factions has, partly due to poorly designed game flow, got a definate increase in the number of people running around in hench teams and I'd hate for that pattern to develop in Nightfall too.

"PUGs suck" fine if that's the line you want to take, but henchies should, in my opinion, be considered as last resort/if you can't find human players overall. At the very least just as options to those minority who play it like a single player game. In no way should they become so great they encourage even more people to use all hench teams, because really if that happens, what is the point of even having it as multiplayer in a PvE context? Just release it as a single player game with online PvP mode and be done with it.

In addition I think skillsets/favourites/loadouts for custom herohenchies would be a really handy addition if it's not already in. It's already at the point people are impatient and won't sit around forever while you try to get a team together, but they'll not magically be more patient while you configure your henchies for the task at hand. Hotkey premade/configured skill sets wanted!

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 25, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

AI/control/customising is welcome but I hope this doesn't lead to even more hench teams - it's supposed to be a massive multiplayer game, not a massive henchieplayer game. Factions has, partly due to poorly designed game flow, got a definate increase in the number of people running around in hench teams and I'd hate for that pattern to develop in Nightfall too.

"PUGs suck" fine if that's the line you want to take, but henchies should, in my opinion, be considered as last resort/if you can't find human players overall. At the very least just as options to those minority who play it like a single player game. In no way should they become so great they encourage even more people to use all hench teams, because really if that happens, what is the point of even having it as multiplayer in a PvE context? Just release it as a single player game with online PvP mode and be done with it.

Well, yeah that's your opinion that henchies should only be a last resort. I really dont think forcing people to group up is the way to go. People should have a choice in how they play, even if you think playing it solo goes against the MMO grain. Henchies should always be a viable alternative. BUT yes, henchies should never be more "powerful" than regular players, making it too good an option.

And if you havent noticed, GW isnt quite an MMO in the traditional sense. With instances for almost everything, the sense of "massive multiplayers" just isnt there. It really won't matter if more people take henchies instead of players. If people dont want to be social, you cant force them to be. And if people prefer the company of real people, they will always take real people.

Xenrath · Aug 25, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Who said anything about forcing? Just that last time I looked this was most definately a multiplayer game. Several human players either against each other in PvP or co-op in PvE, with henchies making up the numbers. I'm not arguing against henchies being an option for those who prefer to play it like a single player game, but what I'm concerned about is that this might encourage even more people to forsake the multiplayer aspect of it... which could also lead to a snowball effect as has happened in Factions in some way:

You arrive somewhere, hardly anyone's there or the few people who are there all have 7 henchies "because PUGs suck" and also because the ping-pong nature of the missions/storyline has helped encourage it. What happens? Even more in hench teams, even the ones who previously might not have been.

Instanced or not is irrelevent, it's still sold as an online multiplayer game, as opposed to a single player game with AI companions and an online PvP mode.